Paul Krugman, NY Times, "Taking On China":
Tensions are rising over Chinese economic policy, and rightly so: China’s policy of keeping its currency, the renminbi, undervalued has become a significant drag on global economic recovery. Something must be done.Peter Schiff, EuroPacific Capital, "Paul Krugman Versus Reality":
To give you a sense of the problem: Widespread complaints that China was manipulating its currency — selling renminbi and buying foreign currencies, so as to keep the renminbi weak and China’s exports artificially competitive — began around 2003. At that point China was adding about $10 billion a month to its reserves, and in 2003 it ran an overall surplus on its current account — a broad measure of the trade balance — of $46 billion.
Today, China is adding more than $30 billion a month to its $2.4 trillion hoard of reserves. The International Monetary Fund expects China to have a 2010 current surplus of more than $450 billion — 10 times the 2003 figure. This is the most distortionary exchange rate policy any major nation has ever followed.
And it’s a policy that seriously damages the rest of the world. Most of the world’s large economies are stuck in a liquidity trap — deeply depressed, but unable to generate a recovery by cutting interest rates because the relevant rates are already near zero. China, by engineering an unwarranted trade surplus, is in effect imposing an anti-stimulus on these economies, which they can’t offset.
So how should we respond? First of all, the U.S. Treasury Department must stop fudging and obfuscating.
Twice a year, by law, Treasury must issue a report identifying nations that “manipulate the rate of exchange between their currency and the United States dollar for purposes of preventing effective balance of payments adjustments or gaining unfair competitive advantage in international trade.” The law’s intent is clear: the report should be a factual determination, not a policy statement. In practice, however, Treasury has been both unwilling to take action on the renminbi and unwilling to do what the law requires, namely explain to Congress why it isn’t taking action. Instead, it has spent the past six or seven years pretending not to see the obvious.
Will the next report, due April 15, continue this tradition? Stay tuned.
If Treasury does find Chinese currency manipulation, then what? Here, we have to get past a common misunderstanding: the view that the Chinese have us over a barrel, because we don’t dare provoke China into dumping its dollar assets.
What you have to ask is, What would happen if China tried to sell a large share of its U.S. assets? Would interest rates soar? Short-term U.S. interest rates wouldn’t change: they’re being kept near zero by the Fed, which won’t raise rates until the unemployment rate comes down. Long-term rates might rise slightly, but they’re mainly determined by market expectations of future short-term rates. Also, the Fed could offset any interest-rate impact of a Chinese pullback by expanding its own purchases of long-term bonds.
It’s true that if China dumped its U.S. assets the value of the dollar would fall against other major currencies, such as the euro. But that would be a good thing for the United States, since it would make our goods more competitive and reduce our trade deficit. On the other hand, it would be a bad thing for China, which would suffer large losses on its dollar holdings. In short, right now America has China over a barrel, not the other way around.
So we have no reason to fear China. But what should we do?
Some still argue that we must reason gently with China, not confront it. But we’ve been reasoning with China for years, as its surplus ballooned, and gotten nowhere: on Sunday Wen Jiabao, the Chinese prime minister, declared — absurdly — that his nation’s currency is not undervalued. (The Peterson Institute for International Economics estimates that the renminbi is undervalued by between 20 and 40 percent.) And Mr. Wen accused other nations of doing what China actually does, seeking to weaken their currencies “just for the purposes of increasing their own exports.”
But if sweet reason won’t work, what’s the alternative? In 1971 the United States dealt with a similar but much less severe problem of foreign undervaluation by imposing a temporary 10 percent surcharge on imports, which was removed a few months later after Germany, Japan and other nations raised the dollar value of their currencies. At this point, it’s hard to see China changing its policies unless faced with the threat of similar action — except that this time the surcharge would have to be much larger, say 25 percent.
I don’t propose this turn to policy hardball lightly. But Chinese currency policy is adding materially to the world’s economic problems at a time when those problems are already very severe. It’s time to take a stand.
In his latest weekly New York Times column, Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman put forward arguments that were so nonsensical that the award committee should ask for its medal back.
Recent rhetoric from Washington has put the economic relationship between the U.S. and China squarely on the front burner, and Krugman is demanding that we crank up the flame. This week 130 members of Congress sent a letter to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner demanding that the Obama administration designate China as a "currency manipulator". Following that, a bipartisan group of senators introduced a bill that looks to force the Obama administration's hand. For its own part, Beijing invites criticism by continuing to deny its utterly obvious currency agenda.
As these tensions escalate, most economists urge Washington to tread lightly because of the negative fallout for America if China were to begin selling its enormous cache of U.S. Treasury bonds. Krugman pushes back, asserting that the U.S. risks little by playing hardball, and that China has more to lose. He asserts that a Chinese decision to end its purchases of U.S. Treasury debt would make only a marginal impact on long-term interest rates. Did you hear that Stockholm?
According to Krugman, our secret weapon of economic invincibility is the Fed's ability to print dollars endlessly. If China were to foolishly decide to attack us by selling our debt, the Fed could simply step in and buy the excess with newly printed greenbacks. (In other words, Krugman sees no difference between funding the debt and monetizing it. See my latest video blog on the subject.). For Krugman, China would gain little from such an attack, but would lose the ability to export to its best customer and suffer severe losses in the value of its dollar holdings. Krugman's worldview is reassuring - but it has absolutely nothing to do with reality.
There is a huge difference between selling your debt to another and "selling" it to yourself. When China buys our debt, it uses its own savings. In order to purchase a trillion dollars of U.S. Treasuries, the Fed would have to expand our money supply by a corresponding amount. Even Krugman acknowledges that this would cause the dollar to lose value; however, he feels that a weaker dollar is good for America and bad for China.
Krugman does not believe that a tanking dollar will translate into higher interest rates or higher consumer prices at home. No matter how many dollars the Fed creates, or how much value those dollars lose relative to other currencies, he is confident that as long as unemployment remains high, rates will stay low and inflation will remain under control. This is absurd.
If the dollar were to nosedive, the Fed would normally look to protect the currency by raising interest rates, thereby increasing foreign demand for the currency. But with an economy currently on crutches, the Fed will ignore a weakening dollar and continue to try to boost employment with near-zero rates.
But keeping the Fed Funds rate low only holds rates down for U.S. government debt. If the dollar weakens substantially, other rates offered to other borrowers will rise as investors demand greater returns to compensate for inflation. To keep rates low for homeowners, credit card borrowers, corporations, municipalities, and state governments, the Fed would be forced to buy, or guarantee, all forms of dollar-denominated debt. The Fed would become the lender of only resort.
Once the Fed shows that its commitment to low rates is limitless (the value of the dollar be damned), private creditors will quit the game. Even average Americans would hit the Fed's bid. It would be a race for the exits, with no one wanting to be left holding a bag of worthless paper dollars.
Most economists, Krugman included, see cheap money as a panacea for all ills. And while it's true that a falling dollar, by lowering the real value of U.S. wages, would help make U.S. goods more competitive, it would also lead to skyrocketing consumer prices, rapidly rising interest rates, and a collapse in American living standards. Make no mistake: this is the end game of Krugman's "get tough on China" policy.
This apocalyptic scenario can only be avoided if Washington jealously guards the status quo, avoiding confrontation with China at all costs. Yet, even that is an outcome that no one can rationally expect. Given exploding U.S. government deficits and the inability of U.S. citizens and corporations to repair their balance sheets, the United States faces financing needs that even China's gargantuan savings stockpile will be unable to cover.
Krugman is right about one thing - China's currency peg is destabilizing the global economy and must end. But he fails utterly to understand the implications for the U.S. and China. If China were to reverse its role in the U.S. Treasury market, both economies would be destabilized in the short-term. But in the medium- and long-term, China would clearly emerge as the winner.
Absent Treasury-bond purchases, the value of the Chinese currency would rise sharply, causing goods prices to tumble in China. This long-delayed increase in purchasing power for everyday Chinese will unleash pent-up demand in what is already the largest middle class in the world. Chinese factories would retool in order to produce goods for their own citizens to consume. In RMB terms, commodity prices would plunge, making it easier for China to produce all kinds of stuff, such as automobiles, while also making it cheaper for the Chinese to buy gas. Millions will trade in bikes for cars, and Chinese oil imports will swell.
The opposite would occur in America, where an artificial, consumer-based economy, supported by Chinese lending, will come tumbling down. Without the ability to import cheap goods from overseas, Americans will pay more and get less. While gas and food become cheaper for the Chinese, they will simultaneously become much more expensive for Americans - so too will automobiles, consumer electronics, furniture, and just about every other product we want or need (even those few we still make ourselves).
Washington's best option is to recognize that the current relationship is unsustainable and to plan, as best as possible, for a more viable future. We Americans also must be honest with ourselves and recognize that we have been living beyond our means and that our lifestyle has been largely financed by austerity in China. We must conceive of a plan that weans us from this dependence without provoking China to pull the rug out from under us before we have a firm footing. To construct a policy around Krugman's ridiculous assumption that we benefit China more than they benefit us is to invite catastrophe on an unimaginable scale.





11 comments:
I don't think either one of them are right. Economics, and especially macroeconomics is a game played with thousands if not millions of variables. The current situation is one that has never existed, and there are many assumptions being made that frankly are just asinine.
Any predictions about the future really are just guesses, even if they have some kind of logic behind them. That being said, I'll let you know a little about what I think.
The national debt right now is over $12 trillion, and private debt is another $16 trillion.
China holds less than $1 trillion worth of our assets. About $10 billion less than Japan. Together they ho;d about $1.6 trillion in US assets. Hmm, where have we heard that number before?
Even if they liquidated everything, instantly tomorrow, it would not do any more damage than the economic stimuli have already done at least to the US economy. While they would lose most of their value by trying to sell off in large increments.
This new health care bill is going to do much more to hurt our economy, than China could even if they wanted to.
Frankly, we just need the Gov't to start living within it's means, the same way that individuals should. When social programs that should not be the government's responsibility are eating up most of the the governments revenue, we have a problem. Especially when they think the answer is more taxes. It's like trying to get the goose that lays golden eggs to lay more eggs by strangling it to death.
Nate,
I'd be interested to see where you got your figures...I couldn't find anything precise on private debt for the US. Also, from what I could see China has more US Treasury holdings than Japan (http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt) by a fairly large margin. Maybe you're talking about holdings aside from just Treasuries? I couldn't find any information on that.
There are certainly some unique aspects to our situation but I don't think it is fair to say that it is completely unprecedented. We have a debt problem as a nation. That is the crux. Many nations throughout history have had debt problems. The difference is that our esteemed economists are arrogant enough to think things will turn out better for us than for other countries who have had massive debt problems.
The health care bill certainly poses a threat...but I don't see how you can separate the health care issue from the debt issue. It can only be funded through more debt. If the Chinese or other foreigners do not fund that debt then we will be forced to fund it ourselves through inflation. If we do that, and the current holders of US debt start to see that we will be paying our bills with devalued dollars then it could turn into a race for the exits. Its not so much a concern of the damage China can do on its own by dumping its assets; the concern is the run on the dollar that it might trigger.
If this isn't the threat that you see posed by the health care bill, what is it then?
Also, what are the 'asinine' assumptions that are being made?
Go to http://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html
they put together a real time clock, and use government sources for all of their figures, in one convenient location. All for 9.99 but wait if you act now... just kidding about that last part, I just kind of felt like a commercial for a second there.
As for the health care, I think it is almost entirely about debt and control, so I don't think we disagree there. If it was really about health care, they could have easily just expanded Medicare and Medicaid.
Currently only 28% of the debt is held foreignly anyway, even if China did want to dump, The Fed owns more than all foreign entities combined, and they are already in the regulating business.Essentially they could buy up that debt for pennies on the dollar still have control of it, and make a killing.
As for 'asinine' assumptions, get me a list of their assumptions and I could probably give a reason for anyone on the list why it is not a good assumption in this case.
Nate,
thanks for the link.
I don't know if I follow you entirely. So you are suggesting that if China dumped their massive Treasury holdings, the value of American debt would plummet enabling the Fed to buy up that debt for pennies on the dollar...and yet you don't see that as a major problem? If the market value of our debt turned south in a major way, this would necessarily be followed by skyrocketing interest rates on any future debt issued by the Treasury. The Fed would probably become the only buyer of that debt if no one trusted our ability to pay back the debt legitimately. This would result in the hyper-inflation scenario that many Austrian type economists fear. That's essentially the end-game, worse case scenario that Peter Schiff describes...so I guess you agree with him?
As for the 'asinine' assumptions, that was your word not mine:) You made the accusation, so you need to back it up. Actually Peter Schiff's article is basically a rebuttal of Krugman's assumptions, so I guess I would ask you to point out the bad assumptions that Schiff made.
No, I don't think the value would plummet. I think China would have to sell at an extremely discounted rate, in order to dump. Those are entirely different, it would be the fed getting a really good deal because the seller(China) is extremely motivated to sell.
As for the asinine assumptions, I stick to what I said. Neither of the articles you linked shared most of their assumptions, they were just opinions, without their source material and calculations. Though both of them seem to make the assumption that there is a cause and effect relationship that does not exist.
When dealing with humans there is an added variable which throws a wrench into predictability. It is called choice. That is one thing they both have in common, they assume they know what the Fed will do when they don't.
But that barely even scratches the surface. There are literally thousands if not millions of variables in this situation that could have profound impact on what happens.
So like I said before, 'Any predictions about the future really are just guesses, even if they have some kind of logic behind them.'
Nate,
I still don't follow your reasoning. How could it be that China has to sell at a discounted rate to the Fed in order to dump it's Treasury holdings, but the market price has not plummeted? Why would the Chinese sell to the Fed at a discounted rate if there were other buyers in the market willing to pay more for US debt??
Now you are saying that you stick to your accusation of 'asinine' assumptions, but you claim that Schiff's article does not list his assumptions? Which assumptions are asinine then?
I'm with you on human unpredictability...but I'm not sure how that relates to this. Peter Schiff is outlining the inevitable consequences of living beyond our means. The US will never default on its debt...our debt is denominated in dollars (which we can print) so why would we ever default? The most likely scenario is that the Fed would become the only buyer of debt at some point and all of that purchasing would be done with new money leading to hyper inflation. Schiff sees a Chinese sell-off as potentially kicking off the run on the dollar. As I said in an earlier comment, it is not the Chinese sell-off itself that is the major concern; it is the panic it would likely create.
If you don't agree with this analysis, where exactly is your point of disagreement? You say that we can't predict the future, but you agree that debt is a major problem. i assume you believe it is a problem because of potentially bad future consequences. So it seems that you must have some theory on future consequences if we don't live within our means?
China would have to sell at a discounted rate, because of the market share which they control. If they want to sell, maybe it wouldn’t be only the fed buying it up, but it would still be a discounted rate. The value would fall because there would instantly be a higher supply than demand. If it was bought up by buyers willing to hold the notes until they come due and reap the full value, than the value would quickly rebound to close to the current value. No harm no foul.
You seem to want me to list asinine assumptions that are secondary effects rather than causes, or I just don’t know what you want. The biggest asinine assumption that I was talking about and already stated was the linking of cause and effect relationships that do not exist.
Human unpredictability is the basis for their disagreement, how can you not see how it relates to this? They both assume the Fed will do something different, and that will cause something that may or may not happen. They don’t know, the Fed is controlled by people who are unpredictable. And that is only half, if that, of the story. The fact that there are over 300 million people in this country and all have some stake in what would happen, even if only 1% of those people pay attention, and make decisions that would affect what happens, there still are a lot of variables, and human unpredictability is fundamental to what choices will be made, and ultimately to what happens.
I still am not convinced that a panic would even be created if there was a Chinese sell-off, and even if the Fed decided to print enough money to pay off all the debt tomorrow, I don’t think we would see the kind of hyper-inflation that has plagued many other countries. There is not any other currency that could take over. When their currencies fell apart, it barely affected the rest of the world, because there were other currencies that could replace it easily, but if the US currency failed, the entire world would hugely be affected, and we wouldn’t be able to easily transition to another. Unless the government jumped in and started mandating higher and higher minimum wages, an excess of cash alone, especially concentrated in a few hands wouldn’t cause that kind of hyper inflation.
Nate,
it seems to me that you are describing a market price adjustment if China decides to unload its dollar denominated assets, followed by a rebound if the buyers want to hold on to the assets for the long haul. That's a big if. And it defies all of our experience with financial runs. A decision by China to sell, thereby realizing a loss on their assets, would be a huge negative market signal to holders of similar assets. Just look at our recent financial crisis...when people lost trust in the value of mortgage backed securities it quickly turned into a race for the exits. The resulting decline in value on these securities had broader implications as firms that held onto these assets had to mark them down (mark to market) thus damaging their financial positions even if they weren't looking to sell...a similar thing would happen were China to sell.
As for the 'asinine assumptions', I was simply hoping you would be more specific. You made the accusation in the initial post, then never provided a concrete example.
As for the 'human unpredictability', I still don't follow you. Where do the author's of these articles assume that the Fed will do something different? In fact, both articles assume the Fed would do the same thing (monetize the debt in the case of a Chinese sell-off)...the difference is in the implications of this Fed decision. Schiff sees this as a very bad thing for the US and ultimately beneficial to China. Krugman sees it as benefiting the US and hurting China.
From your last paragraph you seem to be in greater agreement with Krugman...you don't see a Chinese sell-off as particularly detrimental to the US. If this is the case, why do you fear the debt level of the US? If you do not fear the potential for high inflation as a result of our out- of-control debt situation, what is your fear?
You may think that a big if, but that would only be because you aren’t looking at the big picture. Look at our recent financial crisis, while many people lost a lot, most people that didn't make their decisions based on fear are in as good if not better position than they were before. The reason for the prolonged recession, in my opinion, has nothing to do with the stock market, and everything to do with governmental reaction.
As for asinine assumptions, I don’t understand still. The more specificity that you want jumps passed root causes/assumptions and starts delving in effects, reactions, and byproducts. What I think is an asinine assumption is that they know what people’s reactions will be. Especially, when there has never been anything like this situation before. I believe I said something like that in the very first paragraph or two in the very first post.
The debt in and of itself wouldn’t be such a bad thing, but that it is a symptom of a greater problem. The out of control spending, and expansion of the government. There is no valid reason for having a planned budget deficit. The government should be able to spend money that they have already received during the previous tax year, and not spend based on projected revenue. The only reason for going into debt would be national defense, and that would be an extremely rare occurance. My objection to the national debt is ideological, and not from fear of national collapse. I don’t believe the government should be involved in every aspect of our lives, and I definitely don’t think they should be providing extraneous services, when they don’t have the money to pay for them. My objection is the same on an individual level. I don’t think individuals should have any consumer debt. If debt is used to help grow your net worth that is one thing, but debt so that you can consume above your means is stupid.
Nate,
where in these articles do either of them assume to know what people's reactions will be? That is the part I am not understanding...please be specific. You seemed to indicate in a previous post that they predicted differing actions from the Fed...where do they say that? From my reading it appears they are drawing conclusions based on the same Fed action.
If I understand you right, you aren't at all concerned about the financial consequences of too much debt (on the national level). You are concerned that by going into debt this enables the government to spend too much and grow too big. But you seem to be saying that the government can spend all it wants and never face any negative financial consequences for doing so. The only threat is a loss of liberty to us as the government grows. Did I get your position right?
If that is what you think, then I don't really know what else to say. I too fear the growth in government but I don't think the US can borrow indefinitely without upsetting our creditors at some point. The moment that credit dries up we will be forced into an inflationary environment because the US will never simply default, it will monetize.
Krugman claims the Fed will keep interest rates near zero until the unemployment rate comes down, and Schiff claims this is an absurdity and then explains why he doesn’t think the Fed even could keep interest rates that low in this situation. On the same note, both of their “conclusions” are just analysis of what they think people’s reactions will be.
Don’t get me wrong, the financial consequences will affect politics in the US, in fact, as we can see, the entire TEA Party movement is a consequence of poor financial decisions, and the expansion of government which is a direct result. Also, current political trends seem to be toward fiscal responsibility, and that looks like it will prove to be a huge game changer come November. However, I do not believe that monetizing the debt will cause the imminent collapse of the US economy. Social Security/Medicare/Obamacare and other ludicrous entitlements are by far bigger threats to our economic solvency than the Chinese held portion of the national debt.
I don’t think that we could just continuously print money to pay for everything; I just think that China’s portion isn’t a big enough influencing factor of the overall economy to do that much serious damage.
The net worth of non-governmental entities in the US is over $72 Trillion, the national debt is less than $13 Trillion, and China’s debt holdings are less than $1 Trillion. While that is still an enormous amount of debt, even if it was monetized, it is not enough to produce the runaway inflation that has been seen in other countries. The monetary base currently is almost $2 Trillion; monetizing China’s portion of the debt wouldn’t even double the money supply. I just think that the run on the dollar won’t be enough to seriously damage our country. Yes, it would be a bad thing; yes, it would have an impact; just not enough to stop our economy. Who knows, I could be wrong, but I just don’t buy into all this media hype that preys on the fears of their readers/listeners/viewers. Sex and fear sell, but neither of them are very helpful in overcoming most problems or in finding the best solutions.
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